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Is it Trinity Doctrine unbiblical?
replied to:  Stealthjet
Replied to:  Is it Trinity Doctrine unbiblical?
replied to:  Stealthjet
Replied to:  Is it Trinity Doctrine unbiblical?

Let the word of God be your teacher. From John 15:26 thru chp.16, Jesus spoke of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, using the words "He" & "Him" over ten times! Please read this, it's very enlightening.

Also, when Jesus was baptised, the Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove, then the Father spoke from Heaven saying "This is My Son in Whom I Am well pleased. Here you have all three persons of the Godhead manifesting themselves.

Just because the word trinity is not in the Bible, that doesn't mean it's wrong to use the word trinity when speaking about the Godhead.

Also, the Holy Spirit, as Jesus Himself stated, convicts the world of sin. How could He do this (work on our consciences) if he was an an impersonal act-of-power rather than a person?

They each have their own roles. The Father has the headship; Jesus, the second person of the trinity has the creative & redemptive roles; and the Holy Spirit has the direct power of operation on our consciences to convict of sin & point us to our need for a Savior.

Jesus said "But when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, "HE" will guide you into all Truth. John 16:13

And again in v. 14 "HE" will glorify me, . . .

If you read only the sixteenth chapter of John, Jesus' words alone will convince you of this truth!
replied to:  Stealthjet
Replied to:  Is it Trinity Doctrine unbiblical?
There is a Triune God: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit: but there is some misapplication of the Trinity doctrine: some believe that because the Holy Spirit is a Person and is God, that He is to be worshipped and glorified together with the Father and the Son, but scripture does not support that at all because te role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son in seeking His glory and thereby the glory of God the Father. The Holy Spirit in according to scripture will not speak of himself in seeking his own glory and so as a true witness: He will not lead believers to worship nor to glorify himself as the Holy Spirit, but lead them to glorify the name of Jesus Christ as being above every other name.

John 15:26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Thus the words that the Holy Spirit says are the words of the Son:

John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So even the fruits and the gifts of the Spirit are from Jesus Christ:

Philippians 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ...9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

So that is why Jesus is called the Bridegroom as scripture and the indwelling Holy Spirit is still pointing us to go to the Father by way of the Son in getting to know Him to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

God the Father is reconciling the world to Himself through Himself, the Son. All invitations points to the Son to come to the Father: none points to come to the Holy Spirit because it is by coming to the Son for our salvation is when we have received the promise of the Spirit, and thus why we are to be witnesses of the Son giving that one hope of our calling to come to the Son: not chasing after the Holy Spirit as some believers err in so doing in thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again. That is a false witness and against scripture.

Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

John 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Ephesians 1:18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Colossians 2:5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

One drink of the One Spirit is how we are baptized by Jesus Christ at our salvation.

1 Corinthians 12: 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That is why there is only one hope of our calling: so there is no other invitation in seeking after the Holy Spirit to receive again as it goes against the faith.

Ephesians 1: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The world seek after spirits and worships them: they receive these spirits because they see it by signs and wonders: the difference in knowing the Holy Spirit is that He is within us and dwells within us: not out in the worship place stealing the spotlight from Christ Jesus nor to even share in that spotlight because the name of Jesus, the Son, is above every other name by Whom God the Father is glorified by: this is the mind of Christ we are to have.

Philippians 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 2:2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Which is why in standing apart from the world: God has provided only one way in appraoching Him in worship, in prayer, and in walking with Him: through the Son. The Holy Spirit is God, but sent to be a witness in dwelling within us to lead us to be witnesses of the Son also in seeking the glory of the Son and thereby the Father as well.

It is by honouring the Son only as the Holy Spirit in us along with the scripture is leading us to do is the only way the Father in Heaven can be honoured as that is the standard of judgment believers will be judged by.

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It was not a mistake in leaving our the Person of the Holy Spirit Whom is God because He is sent to dwell within us to lead us in being faithful witnesses of the Good News in Christ Jesus as once again scripture confirms as to how God the Father is glorified and that is through the Son.

John 13: 31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

So the Trinity doctrine is one to guard against in how they are applying it. The Nicene creed which was done in ecumenical format in uniting the churches in having an agreement with the Roman Catholic Church by this creed is why these scripture below rebukes such a thing as error was slipped in, honouring the Holy Spirit as the Giver of Life when Jesus is in the King James Bible:

John 6: 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Other modern Bibles have the above references but they gloss over them when other references elsewhere that were changed in the modern Bibles to give that title of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit in error.

Other modern Bibles have capitalized the "spirit" as the "Spirit" and made the Spirit as the Giver of Life, but the King James Bible maintained the small s in "spirit" as not being the Holy Spirit.

New International Version below which is in error:

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[a] and life.

King James Bible below which is correct:

John 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit is life: not the Giver of life. Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit at our salvation and thus Jesus is the One that gives us life as John 6:32-25 says plainly.

Romans 8:10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

So not only is the Nicene creed is in error in regards to not honouring the Son as the Giver of Life: they include the Holy Spirit to be worshipped with the Father and the Son. These ecumenical creeds needs to be dropped.

2 Corinthians 6:14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Because the way was broadened in the worship place to include the Holy Spirit: churches across the denomenation has suffered a supernatural phenomenon such as the "holy laughter" movement. This is why believers were warned not to believe every spirit but test them: see what these spirits are leading them to do: in seeking after them to receive them again and yet the line of discernment has been given not to be seduced by them and that is for believers to know that greater is he that is in you than he taht is in the world thus we avoid speaking as the world speak by testifying of the Son, Jesus Christ in seeking His glory:

1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

What do we do to those that go astray and refuse correction?

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; ..... 13But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Trust Jesus Christ in being your Good Shepherd in guiding you through His words as kept by those that loved Him and His words in the King James Bible to keep you ready and worthy to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21: 33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus is called the Bridegroom for a reason: for us as believers to be the chaste bride in relating to God the Father through the Son in prayer and in worship as our hymnals should reflect that as well: which today: not all hymnals do as they sometimes include the Holy Spirit to be worshipped with the Father and the Son and some of them even just focus on the Holy Spirit to be addressed and worshipped alone which is against scripture and what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do.

Colossians 3:16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

John 14:13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ... 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door:

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jesus is the only way we can know the Father so believers are to narrow the way back to the straight gate in keeping our eyes on Jesus because the Bridegroom will be coming soon to collect His chaste bride from the foolish virgins.

So the name of the Trinity is not to be sung nor honoured in worship: it is the name of Jesus that God the Father is honoured by. There is no other name to honour God by.

So there is a Triune God, but how we approach God in our relationship with Him is key: and Jesus is the door.
replied to:  RandMSutor
Replied to:  Let the word of God be your teacher. From...
RandM Sutor,

I think we might have a lot in common if you are interested in this topic. I hope you will find that my Trinity research compliments your own.

I believe that God is one in spirit, and universal in mind, but threefold in personality. Each of these persons is conscious of himself as part of one consciousness unified in conscience and reason, but having the personality prerogative of freewill within the bounds of necessary Trinity cooperation.

The will of each person of the Trinity is not identical, but is integrated in an almost musical procession of exquisite "perichoresis" or dancing around of Trinity coordination, forever supporting their divine union in One God. Theoretically, each could walk away with his portion of the kingdom, as the Quran puts it, but they don't because of the catastrophic consequences of such a disintegration, as well as the overwhelming goodness of their systematic unity.

Please take a look at my new book "Religious Pluralism and the Trinity Absolute: a Constructive Interpretation of World Religions and a Metaphysical Blueprint for Peace" currently previewing on the web at

The thesis is that Muslims (and Jews) worship only the first person of the Trinity, i.e. the Deity Absolute Prime Creator. Christians and some Hindus worship the first person through the second person, i.e. the Universe Absolute Supreme Being or Oversoul. And many Hindus and some Buddhists venerate the synthesis of the first and second persons in a third person, i.e. the Unconditioned Absolute Spirit of All That Is.

It is argued that world religions reflect the systematic unity of One God in Trinity manifestations, which become almost universal when you consider that some flavours of Buddhism, Confucian-Taoism, and other major religions seem to be psychological permutations or combinations of the first three – all just different personality perspectives on the same God.

It is argued that that a spark of that one spirit of Trinity indwells the soul of all humans, together with a small portion of the universal mind, and a personal will or character. The human soul is thus modelled on the Trinity as its only adequate metaphysical vehicle, but also in a “perichoresis” of the psychological coordinates of consciousness – the threefold human soul – personality/mind/spirit.

If the purpose of life is to find God and be like him, then the way to do the will of God is to let him live your life with you, helping fuse your personality and spirit in your immortal soul. That immortality may be achieved through participation in the Universe Absolute Oversoul, of which Jesus Christ seems to be the head representative, and it might also be a merging of consciousness with the Unconditioned Absolute Spirit of All That Is, as well as an amplification of personal connection with the Deity Absolute.

At the same time, in considering the Universe Supreme Being, Muslims would insist on including Muhammad, and Hindus might suggest Gandhi, etc. At the supposed spirit level of the universe, we can speculate that the corresponding supreme leaders might be Michael, Gabriel, and some unidentified angel(s).

Similarly and likewise, Allah, Abba (or Father, as Jesus called him), and Brahma may be regarded as a representation of the first person of the Trinity Absolute in three major world religions - Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism – with hybrid psychologies represented by Buddha, Confucius or Lao-Tze, and others.

My questions are: Do you see how closely the psychology of the major religions maps onto the Trinity Absolute, as I have described it on my website? What do you think of religious pluralism? Can I not still be a good Christian without being exclusive?

Please see my website Contact page, and give me a comment for the Bulletin Board.

Samuel Stuart Maynes